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	<title>Comments on: Be a better tester &#8211; do something else</title>
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		<title>By: Ben Kelly</title>
		<link>http://www.testjutsu.com/be-a-better-tester-do-something-else/comment-page-1#comment-47</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Kelly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 08:24:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.testjutsu.com/be-a-better-tester-do-something-else#comment-47</guid>
		<description>Mastering something else as a way of making you a better tester is a heuristic. It won&#039;t always hold true for numerous reasons probably including the ones you mention.

In terms of people that have mastered something and used it to inform their testing - Just about anyone who presented at CAST 2008 for starters.

Michael Bolton, Jonathan Kohl, Chris McMahon - all accomplished musicians, all use their knowledge of music to inform their testing.
Kem Caner - uses knowledge from his law doctorate (amongst a prodigious amount of other stuff) to inform his testing
Scott Barber - uses knowledge from his civil engineering degree
to name just a few.

As to why mastering something else helps (aside from being able to play the simily game) - 
Understanding of what it takes to learn and understand something - progressing from being unconscious about how much you don&#039;t know, to conscious about how much you don&#039;t know and your progression toward acquiring that knowledge.

Understanding other human beings, Understanding yourself - Throwing someone around (and indeed being thrown around) a judojo won&#039;t in and of itself make you a better tester, but through repeated sparring with other human beings you learn how they think and more to the point, you learn how you think and act when under pressure. Other arts may give you other insights into human nature. I think they are there for those that invest the time.

Understanding the difference between practice and application (I just wrote about this, so I won&#039;t labour the point)

and on and on.


I don&#039;t have any counter examples of people that mastered something worthwhile and didn&#039;t become better testers. I suspect as you allude, that anyone who has the perseverance to master something will have the awareness to take that into their testing. I know some testers who are really good at other stuff and probably don&#039;t incorporate that into their testing, but there is a difference between being really good at something and working to master it.

I&#039;m also not saying that the only way to master testing is to master something else first. I am saying that having done so will inevitably make you a better software tester.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mastering something else as a way of making you a better tester is a heuristic. It won&#8217;t always hold true for numerous reasons probably including the ones you mention.</p>
<p>In terms of people that have mastered something and used it to inform their testing &#8211; Just about anyone who presented at CAST 2008 for starters.</p>
<p>Michael Bolton, Jonathan Kohl, Chris McMahon &#8211; all accomplished musicians, all use their knowledge of music to inform their testing.<br />
Kem Caner &#8211; uses knowledge from his law doctorate (amongst a prodigious amount of other stuff) to inform his testing<br />
Scott Barber &#8211; uses knowledge from his civil engineering degree<br />
to name just a few.</p>
<p>As to why mastering something else helps (aside from being able to play the simily game) &#8211;<br />
Understanding of what it takes to learn and understand something &#8211; progressing from being unconscious about how much you don&#8217;t know, to conscious about how much you don&#8217;t know and your progression toward acquiring that knowledge.</p>
<p>Understanding other human beings, Understanding yourself &#8211; Throwing someone around (and indeed being thrown around) a judojo won&#8217;t in and of itself make you a better tester, but through repeated sparring with other human beings you learn how they think and more to the point, you learn how you think and act when under pressure. Other arts may give you other insights into human nature. I think they are there for those that invest the time.</p>
<p>Understanding the difference between practice and application (I just wrote about this, so I won&#8217;t labour the point)</p>
<p>and on and on.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t have any counter examples of people that mastered something worthwhile and didn&#8217;t become better testers. I suspect as you allude, that anyone who has the perseverance to master something will have the awareness to take that into their testing. I know some testers who are really good at other stuff and probably don&#8217;t incorporate that into their testing, but there is a difference between being really good at something and working to master it.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m also not saying that the only way to master testing is to master something else first. I am saying that having done so will inevitably make you a better software tester.</p>
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		<title>By: Ido Schacham</title>
		<link>http://www.testjutsu.com/be-a-better-tester-do-something-else/comment-page-1#comment-46</link>
		<dc:creator>Ido Schacham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 07:51:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.testjutsu.com/be-a-better-tester-do-something-else#comment-46</guid>
		<description>I think your claim is interesting, and I agree with it to some extent, but the argument you give in favor of it (towards the end of the post) is too ambiguous and not really convincing. 

Do you have some examples of people you know or maybe from your own life that became better testers because they went and did something else? What about counter examples, people who learned other skills while their testing didn&#039;t improve one bit? Can you tie directly skills learned in other fields that improved your testing? How exactly would, say, learning some Judo moves or whatever it may be improve my testing?

Generally I think being versatile and learning several different disciplines helps you as a person. However, I&#039;ve known and seen too many experts that just do one thing almost all the time and excel in their field.

In my opinion being able to go off and master something else and have that improve your testing has to do with something deeper - with your awareness. I wrote about it in my own blog, you&#039;re more than welcome to have a read: http://www.testuff.com/blog/2008/06/the-zen-of-testing/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think your claim is interesting, and I agree with it to some extent, but the argument you give in favor of it (towards the end of the post) is too ambiguous and not really convincing. </p>
<p>Do you have some examples of people you know or maybe from your own life that became better testers because they went and did something else? What about counter examples, people who learned other skills while their testing didn&#8217;t improve one bit? Can you tie directly skills learned in other fields that improved your testing? How exactly would, say, learning some Judo moves or whatever it may be improve my testing?</p>
<p>Generally I think being versatile and learning several different disciplines helps you as a person. However, I&#8217;ve known and seen too many experts that just do one thing almost all the time and excel in their field.</p>
<p>In my opinion being able to go off and master something else and have that improve your testing has to do with something deeper &#8211; with your awareness. I wrote about it in my own blog, you&#8217;re more than welcome to have a read: <a href="http://www.testuff.com/blog/2008/06/the-zen-of-testing/" rel="nofollow">http://www.testuff.com/blog/2008/06/the-zen-of-testing/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Ben Kelly</title>
		<link>http://www.testjutsu.com/be-a-better-tester-do-something-else/comment-page-1#comment-44</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Kelly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 14:27:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.testjutsu.com/be-a-better-tester-do-something-else#comment-44</guid>
		<description>Not so much. What I am saying is that should Tiger decide he wanted to take up software testing, his mastery of golf would help him immensely in learning the craft.

I&#039;m not saying that you cannot master testing (or anything) without doing something else. I am saying that it helps. I am saying that having mastery of one thing is of great benefit when trying to master another.

In terms of mastering anything, there is no substitute for putting in the hours. If you want to be great, it takes the sort of single-minded determination, focus and the will do act that few people seem to be able to sustain very long (and acceptance of the sacrifices that inevitably follow). If it&#039;s something that you&#039;re passionate about, the rewards can be experiences that money can&#039;t buy (and depending on what you master, it can mean a whole lot of money too :) ).

Thanks for your comment and the article. It was an interesting read.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not so much. What I am saying is that should Tiger decide he wanted to take up software testing, his mastery of golf would help him immensely in learning the craft.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not saying that you cannot master testing (or anything) without doing something else. I am saying that it helps. I am saying that having mastery of one thing is of great benefit when trying to master another.</p>
<p>In terms of mastering anything, there is no substitute for putting in the hours. If you want to be great, it takes the sort of single-minded determination, focus and the will do act that few people seem to be able to sustain very long (and acceptance of the sacrifices that inevitably follow). If it&#8217;s something that you&#8217;re passionate about, the rewards can be experiences that money can&#8217;t buy (and depending on what you master, it can mean a whole lot of money too <img src='http://www.testjutsu.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  ).</p>
<p>Thanks for your comment and the article. It was an interesting read.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil Kirkham</title>
		<link>http://www.testjutsu.com/be-a-better-tester-do-something-else/comment-page-1#comment-43</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil Kirkham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 13:56:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.testjutsu.com/be-a-better-tester-do-something-else#comment-43</guid>
		<description>So if Tiger Woods wanted to become an even better golfer should he take up testing ?

I like to try and learn from other fields and take things from them to use in testing but testing is what I want to master

I posted on the software testing club about this just before I saw your blog and my posting was done after reading this article - What it takes to be great

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2006/10/30/8391794/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So if Tiger Woods wanted to become an even better golfer should he take up testing ?</p>
<p>I like to try and learn from other fields and take things from them to use in testing but testing is what I want to master</p>
<p>I posted on the software testing club about this just before I saw your blog and my posting was done after reading this article &#8211; What it takes to be great</p>
<p><a href="http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2006/10/30/8391794/" rel="nofollow">http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2006/10/30/8391794/</a></p>
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